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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
   |
Posted - 2012.05.03 08:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Agreeing with everyone else.
It's not a good mod.
The idea is good, the implementation is bad.
I say let's make it a high slot mod: but let it use a turret hard point!
In that way you wont have max gank ships as they have to trade guns for drone damage. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
MalVortex wrote:Just Alter wrote:Agreeing with everyone else.
It's not a good mod.
The idea is good, the implementation is bad.
I say let's make it a high slot mod: but let it use a turret hard point!
In that way you wont have max gank ships as they have to trade guns for drone damage. There are a number of Drone ships without Gun hardpoints, or very few (Gila immediately springs to mind). The module is also not limited to just pure drone boats - there is no reason a drake couldn't fit one of these if it wanted to buff up its Warrior IIs (it would probably be a bad idea, but the option should be there). Consuming a highslot - any highslot - is a significant opportunity cost due to the high pressure for those slots. On ships like the Dominix or Myrmidon, any highslot spent on an EDA (or any other utility module) is automatically one less gun that could be fit to the ship. That is a direct tradeoff in maximum damage. Even if you are only trading off utility highslots (such as found on the Ishtar), those highslots are still highly in demand for Neuts/Nos, Smarbombs, or a cloak. Each EDA fit reduces the ability to fit those wonderful modules, which is an opportunity cost not to be ignored. Since we are discussing a drone mod, you can't ignore the Drone Link Augmenter either as yet another module competing for those highslots (Gila's are painful without a DLA, and that's half your utility slots right there!). I love the idea of making EDAs highslot, but making them consume actual turret/missile hardpoints is unnecessary and unfairly exclusionary to specific ships.
Quote:On ships like the Dominix or Myrmidon, any highslot spent on an EDA (or any other utility module) is automatically one less gun that could be fit to the ship.
That's the point; otherwise you'd have dominix's with 3 mag stab and 3 eda, shield buffer in the mids and damage rigs.
It would push 2+k dps.
If you make them an high slot item (turret OR missiles hardpoint) you are exchanging turret/missile dps for drone dps, in that way the overall dps does not increase, but if you like to use drones and not turrets you actually have the choice to get to 1k dps; right now drones will never do more than 500dps.
The idea is, i repeat: exchange turret/missiles dps for drone dps.
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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 10:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
July Oumis wrote:You can't compare Drone DPS to Missile or Turret DPS.
Turrets or bays hit while you are moving your ship and apply the damage. Drone either force you to stand still or have less real DPS, because you have to consider the flighttime.
If you want Drone only, you have to increase raw DPS to equal it out.
If you only use magstabs and extrinsics you will end up having an awful tracking, thus mitigating you EFT DPS. Your shiledtank would be weakened, because you need 2 tracking enhancers and 2 omnis if you use 3 dmg mods of each kind, to be effective.
What you wrote it's not true.
Quote:Turrets or bays hit while you are moving your ship and apply the damage. Drone either force you to stand still or have less real DPS, because you have to consider the flighttime.
Even drones hit while you're moving your ship,watch some pvp video of good drone users, nobody stand still at all.
About less real dps: true they have flight time, however once they're on the target their dps is much less reduced by sig/radial than that of missiles or turrets.
Quote:If you want Drone only, you have to increase raw DPS to equal it out.
As much as i would like it this would not be good, because when your drones get to the target he would simply pop.
Quote:If you only use magstabs and extrinsics you will end up having an awful tracking, thus mitigating you EFT DPS.
Against smaller ships or really fast ships maybe, not all of them, thus making the setup overpowered over slow and tanky ships.
Also good piloting can mitigate those things so again: in certain situation you'd be too powerful, and that's not good.
Quote:Your shiledtank would be weakened, because you need 2 tracking enhancers and 2 omnis if you use 3 dmg mods of each kind, to be effective.
This is something you think and which may not necessarily be true at all.
tl;dr allowing guns dmg mods+drones dmg mods+full racks of guns could mean an ourageous amount of dps in certain situations and that is not acceptable.
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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 11:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Making it an high slot(and turret/missiles) item would:
- increase the tank(mag stabs/bcu slots could be used to increase the tank)
- give drone users the ability to avoid training gunnery(or missiles) skills at all
- increase drone dps to such a point that it would equal that of turrets. (so 5 ogres/sentries+7 EDA in a bonused ship would do about 1200dps)
- make drones a scalable weapon system, not stuck at 500dps.
But i see i'm talking about something completely different here.
So sticking to reality: make it an utility high slot, the increase in dps wont be so high to overpower ships. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh well, that ends it then.
Good module anyway, just not easy to adapt to.
A lot of fits will change to accomodate this. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 16:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Drew Solaert wrote:For the moving it to the highslot arguement, just no. Plain no. Drones have a nasty habbit of going pop in PvP and some certain PvE enviroments. You lost all of your drones warping out? Fantastic just use your splash attack or something when you get caught in a compremising situation heading back to the nearest station/or leave the roam early.
CCP stated it will never be anything else than low slot, no need to think about these things any further.
Let's concentrate on the cpu reqs and underwhelming dmg modifier.
edit: played around in etf a bit, tweaking rigs and tank it definetily is a good module, even with this absurdly low dmg modifier.
The sweet spot, as others hinted, would be about 22% dps imho. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vaako Horizon wrote:Just Alter wrote:Making it an high slot(and turret/missiles) item would:
- increase the tank(mag stabs/bcu slots could be used to increase the tank)
- give drone users the ability to avoid training gunnery(or missiles) skills at all
- increase drone dps to such a point that it would equal that of turrets. (so 5 ogres/sentries+7 EDA in a bonused ship would do about 1200dps)
- make drones a scalable weapon system, not stuck at 500dps.
But i see i'm talking about something completely different here. So sticking to reality: make it an utility high slot, the increase in dps wont be so high to overpower ships. +7 EDA? woot? that will make the drone range very limited ( 65km ), I'd really love 1200 dps on my rattle but the range is unacceptable, I would go something like 1 t2 cruise missile, 2x drone link augmentor and then rest EDA's
No other bs does 1200 dps at 65km so it would be fair.
About the tank: if you used sentries+sentry rigs now you can switch the rigs for tank/cap rigs and use the EDA in the lows, with similiar performance (at least in certain setups/ships)
I'd still like to see them on the high slots but it seems like it's not gonna happen. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 09:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
"I had a hobgoblin miss a shield Cane last night..."
Yeah well that's the exception rather than the norm.
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